Jamie: Hello, everyone. Welcome to today’s webinar, the UnWebinar III. That means we’ve done it three times and we’re very excited. I’m Jamie Bradley and I work here at Emma. I’m a content marketing strategist, and I basically, among many things, get to do amazing activities like do UnWebinars with Scott and Alison.
Before they introduce themselves for those of you that aren’t familiar, Emma is an email marketing company. We’re based here in Nashville, that’s where I’m sitting. It’s a bustling metropolis filled with construction cranes and dynamite blast. If you do here one and I squeal or scream, it’s normal. It’s the new normal, new Nashville. We love it.
And we will send a recording, so if you need to hop off or, you know, just wanna share this with a friend, feel free. We will email that to you after today’s broadcast. And I’m here with Scott and Alison from UnMarketing all the way from Toronto, Canada as our CEO Clint would say.
Scott: It’s our favorite jokes with you guys. For those of you that don’t know, it’s saying Toronto, Canada is like saying Nashville, U.S.A.
Jamie: Yeah, which honestly, I think sounds kind of cool.
Scott: Yeah, but weird.
Jamie: It is weird.
Scott: [inaudible 00:01:21] very easily.
Alison: Basically, if you say something one time and Scott thinks it’s funny, he’s gonna say it many, many, many times over because he feels that makes it funnier.
Scott: We call it repurposing content. That’s our thing, yeah.
Jamie: I like it. So, UnMarketing, Toronto, tell us a little more about you guys for those few people on the line who are here because of Emma and don’t know who you are. I can’t imagine. I can’t imagine who that would be.
Alison: We own and operate a pizza restaurant out of our basement, and the kids are working right now packing pizza.
Scott: Yeah. Be quiet, make some pizza.
Jamie: I smell it.
Scott: Sorry. It’s employee relations. So, we are, first and foremost, the co-hosts of the “UnPodcast” which is wonderfully sponsored by Emma. They are an email marketing company. For your email marketing needs, go to myemma.com/unpodcast [inaudible 00:02:18].
Alison: Scott bounces into that often during the day whenever he feels the need to promote you guys. So, you’re getting real-life promotions that you didn’t even know about.
Jamie: I’m thrilled.
Scott: We write a plethora of books, the fifth book, “UnBranding” will be out this October. We also are the purveyor of fancy mugs not only say “UnPodcast” on one side, but also our catch phrase as they say which is not the jackass [inaudible 00:02:45]. And we may giving some of them away today. We also have socks that say the same thing. Just in case your boss could see the coffee mug, they don’t [crosstalk 00:02:55].
Jamie: Yeah, if you have a…
Alison: And in case you may, and we’re not hosting the “UnPodcast” and writing books, Scott likes to get up on stages around the world.
Scott: And dance for dollars.
Alison: And talk about marketing and business.
Scott: Yeah, and marketing, yeah. More profit.
Jamie: And I believe there’s an upcoming event in which you will be a keynote speaker.
Scott: Yes, the National Coffee Association [inaudible 00:03:21] I’ll be there.
Jamie: The roasters union.
Scott: I’m literally speaking at that this Friday.
Jamie: Oh, really?
Scott: So next month, yeah, Marketing United for the third year in a row, the third part of a trilogy is coming.
Jamie: It is true. Yeah. So, April 19th to the 21st here at Nashville, we are having a conference. It’s as they said the third year, it’s also the third year that Scott will be with us. And it’s a marketing conference that basically spans the digital landscape, and it’s basically the conference that we’d wanna attend ourselves. So, no stale cookies to the best of our ability and knowledge.
Scott: The third keynote different than the other two, which is amazing because I don’t know what I’m gonna say.
Jamie: We’re nervous. No.
Scott: I need people screwing up from now till then so I can have some confidence to use.
Jamie: Oh, I mean, I think that’s gonna happen. Let’s be honest. But it’s at the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum, absolutely gorgeous space. It overlooks downtown Nashville. Again, lots of cranes, lots of excitement. And we’re giving away on this webinar today, tickets to Marketing United. What does that package entail?
Scott: No, not just tickets, no. We’re giving away a pair of tickets, by the way, so you and a stranger can go together.
Alison: Yeah. You could just meet someone at the airport if you want to.
Scott: Yeah. You could swipe left or right. I don’t know which way people swipe to.
Alison: You better not know which people are [inaudible 00:04:50].
Scott: So, we have airfare from an economically feasible airport in the area. We have hotel, and then we have a barbecue dinner with us, and the other contest winners even before it starts. And if you’re a vegetarian, that’s okay because so as Alison and you can both just drink the whole time.
Alison: No, that’s not what we’re gonna do.
Scott: It’s not what we’re doing.
Alison: No. If you have vegetarians who win the contest, we will take it over. We will push Scotts desire to barbecue out the window and we will find a nice place to eat that we will enjoy, I promise.
Jamie: It’s true. I will say one of the best parts of barbecue are the sides, unfortunately, as vegetarians learn, those sides are made with bacon grease, all of them.
Alison: Yeah, I try to pretend that they’re not, generally.
Scott: So, I have two passes for the two of you, flights, hotel, barbecue, a set of all the books signed, sent to you, the mugs, socks, and maybe a [inaudible 00:05:54] shirt from me afterwards, like a game-worn jersey for an athlete, but a keynote. Nobody wants to, why does nobody want the keynote shirt?
Alison: Yeah. There’s probably a couple reasons why nobody wants it.
Jamie: Yeah, there’s a washer, dryer on site at the venue.
Scott: It’s branded. Look at this. Branded.
Alison: And bragging rights which is the most important thing because now after, you know, we did a contest before, so they’re forming a group of contest winners, you know, who can have bragging rights.
Jamie: It’s true, a coalition.
Alison: Access, coalition.
Jamie: So, yeah, so that’s gonna happen today on this webinar. And, you know, this webinar is our UnWebinar, sorry, this broadcast, if you will, is just a Q&A. So, we got lots of Qs. So, I’m gonna pull one up now.
Alison: It’s good we don’t have any As.
Scott: Yeah. I’m concerned right now, actually.
Jamie: At least two, not one. All right. I’m just gonna hop right into it. Are you guys ready?
Scott: Bring it on.
Jamie: Dean, old Dean wants to know, “Seems like the half-life of social media controversies about three days given the attention deficit society that we live in, when do you know to defend yourself from foe outrage, and when do you let it slide by? Do you risk stoking flames that might disappear if you do nothing? I know this is likely a case-by-case thing, but curious if you ever think there’s a time to let things slide.” And I wanted to start here because I feel like this, you know…
Scott: Dean feels like he’s in crap, by the way.
Jamie: Right. Dean is like, “Hey, help me out here.”
Scott: I’m asking for a friend, yeah.
Alison: And do you think we could call someone? Because we could call someone right away.
Scott: Three points.
Jamie: Yeah. This should come in at registration, so it’s likely that Dean, if you’re on the line today, let us know what happened here.
Alison: It’s too late.
Jamie: But I do think this is interesting. So, we did a similar webinar a couple of weeks ago with Jay Baer who’s also a thought leader of this space. He’ll be at Marketing United as well. And we got a lot of these questions because, you know, he’s written books on the topic, “Hug your Haters,” all about embracing the, sort of, angry people and turning them into brand advocates. But what do you do when somebody is just mad or do you let it blow over or what’s your advice there?
Scott: It depends on the extremeness of it. Like, if this is a thing that blows up in public, so it’s a thing and everything with the snowball. The hater rage starts rolling down the hill, you know, the problem is, it’s true, it will go away for the most part. But that means just in the social media news cycle. It won’t go away in the minds of the people who are outraged. Now, the question is, are those minds of people who are your customers, your market where you care about? And the problem is, if we don’t address it, then the story hangs out there whatever way the narrative is played.
If you do address it and address it too late, then it never gets heard. So, the key here is, I think, if it’s an issue…the problem is you can’t stoop as low as sometimes the things coming at you. You can’t go and say, “That customer is a liar. That never happened.” Although, I’ve seen it in the past year happened.
Restaurants come out with videotape of people they’re putting their own hair in food and then complaining, and then threatening, we call it social extortion where you threaten, “I’m gonna go on Yelp and complain if you don’t give us our meal for free.” And they’re like, “Go ahead.” And then she did it and they’re like, “Here’s the video.” And I’m like, I like that. I like that.
I don’t say we shall be, you know, vigilantes when it comes to customers, but I really don’t think burying your head in the sand gives us any, sort of, advantage whether it’s an individual customer or a controversy, whether how big or small that is. I just think immediacy is a key part of these things is how quickly we jump on it. Because if we jump on it quickly, the resolution or the explanation or the apology can go with the original issue, so it’s tied together. And therefore, you have a lot less explaining to do afterwards.
Alison: And I think immediacy and calm, like, I think you almost need to see how extreme the person’s being. You know, it’s really angry all caps kind of anger, sometimes, like, some calm, like, we’re listening, you know, we’re here to listen, we wanna make sure because you may never calm down that one person. But what other people will see is this kind of calm metered approach to which I think makes you seem more in control of the situation when the other person is raging. But I think the immediacy is important. I think letting it stew is actually not a good idea. So, if that’s what you’ve done…
Scott: I think we had some good examples recently of some fairly major brands. I love, was it Skittles, when it was about the immigration and race and everything just came out and said so this is not a marketing tool. This is not a marketing opportunity, this issue. That’s all they said. And in turn, it is a marketing thing because they actually said something, but sometimes the best, you know, reaction to something is simply saying, “That’s ridiculous.”
You know, and sometimes, if you’ve already built your community or have a throng of fans who are really supportive of you, they’re the ones that would stand up for you. And that’s more valuable than any press release you can possibly do. And the problem with things like statements and press releases and stuff, is they go through, like, 19 people and they take a week. And by that time, they’re on with the next one, your brand is already burned. It sits with you and it’s useless. You know, 10 years ago, a week is fine. We could get back to the media. We go back to reporters. And now, if you’re not doing something within the day, it might as well be a week or a month.
Alison: I think sometimes we are very set up right now to see that, kind of, online anger and negative feedback and just, kind of, like, try and figure out how to back away from it. I think that’s good, but at the same time it’s really important to listen to what people are saying, although one person may be really angrily yelling at you about something, and maybe that’s not the right way to communicate.
It’s possible that the experience they’re talking about once you dig down is actually a real experience that’s happening with your product or your service or your location, and just saying someone is being angry so I’m not gonna listen to what they’re saying is absolutely gonna be better for your business.
You know, like, at a certain point, you need to take some of that feedback, not necessarily to heart if one person says it, but if you’re getting a ton of angry people saying you’re something, your product is terrible, you know, it’s possible some of them are communicating poorly, but your product might need some work, too.
Scott: The worst type of customer complaint is one you don’t hear. If you don’t hear it, you can’t do anything with it. That becomes a product or service. And I think what he’s asking too potentially is an issue, something comes up huge. And sometimes, you responding to it publicly in channels, is also an opportunity for your employees to see where you stand. And for any organization of any size, employees are people too.
If something happens, and something happens with, I don’t know, I’ll pick something randomly made up, like a new political administration or something happens and somebody is like, “Oh, I’m on this committee.” And people are like, “You’re against this or for this,” you as a company saying something allows the employees to know where you stand, and then they can make their own decisions.
Alison: I read something this morning, it was about Domino’s. I saw it, someone had shared it and they were saying how Domino’s had become very…it was like they, kind of, twisted it, but it was a tech magazine. So, it said how they rebuilt their empire using tech or something. And I read the whole article and it was really interesting because when you read the whole article, what you actually see is, yes, they have all this cool tech stuff, but really, they made their pizza better.
And it’s like, it’s right there. It’s halfway through the article, but totally buried the leaves of the owner saying, “Well, you know, so many people were saying our pizza wasn’t very good.” So we hired all these chefs and we made better pizza. And then also then we started growing so fast and then we got all these cool apps.
And so, some of these have, like, the buried message of why a company does something cool and you’re like, “I wanna do that cool thing they did. That’s why they’re successful.” But actually, they just need better pizza. And they’re like, that simple message though isn’t always so exciting to read. So, you know, it’s so interesting.
Scott: The best part of the article too was they were saying because the brand was known in the past for pretty low-quality pizza, if people did a taste test, it was pizza Domino’s versus not telling them it’s Domino’s. The not telling them it’s Domino’s tasted better.
Alison: Yeah, they assumed. That’s a brand problem. So, you have to…
Scott: And I love that you can order on Twitter. You can literally do no touch pizza order which is fantastic. But it’s terrible pizza, it doesn’t matter how many clicks or touches it takes.
Alison: No, and they said they had 17 different options, but people just get pepperoni every single time, which I thought was amazing.
Scott: If you get pineapple on pizza, you’re a psycho.
Alison: Do you think, it was Dean, right? I’m so sorry. It was Dean’s question.
Jamie: It was Dean.
Alison: We could keep talking for two hours, Dean. We’re so sorry.
Scott: I don’t think we answered his question. I’m sorry.
Jamie: I mean, and honestly, now I’m hungry. I will say, I think it was Domino’s that also did the wedding registry for pizza recently, yeah, which is awesome, but it’s also, like, you know, a little bit of a, “Hey, here’s a fun gimmick. Like, no one’s probably gonna do that.”
Scott: Oh, I don’t know how many weddings you’ve been to but, yeah, a lot of people will be doing that.
Alison: The better pizza isn’t something, like, the secret to good business. No one is gonna be like, “Just make a better product.”
Scott: It’s not sexy. It’s not…
Alison: It’s sexy to us, but it’s not sexy.
Scott: Oh, yeah, I find it very attractive. But it’s not worthy of a new blog post. Somebody was like, “Hey, [crosstalk 00:15:29] better.”
Jamie: Hey, we finally made our food edible. So, in the audience building, you know, kind of, realm, I’m gonna ask this one because I love this person’s name. Joy O’Shaughnessy wants to know, “Please discuss ways one can develop a mailing list,” and really I’ll take it further and say like an audience, “in a regional market one is trying to break into, i.e., we wanna bring our event to say, Singapore, but we need to develop an audience first. How would you go about engaging the audience who doesn’t know about us yet?”
I feel like this is probably a question that you guys would get often. You know, and it’s a common one we get here at Emma, so I’m curious how you would encourage Joy to do that.
Scott: I would first, and Joy by the way, a long time UnMarketing follower, so hi.
Jamie: Oh, awesome. Hey, Joy.
Scott: First of all, nothing replaces somebody in the actual location. At finding somebody, if it’s for an event and you wanna do it in Singapore and you’re in North America, I’m finding somebody in Singapore that knows what they’re doing to help to connect because nothing beats local contacts. Especially when you’re going to another continent, another hemisphere, you’ve got customs that are different. You have culture that is different.
I did an event in New Delhi a few years ago and the entire, just the way the tact of the event and how it’s set up and the food and the way it’s structured was totally different than here. And I just don’t think… I love virtual. I love digital. We live in this space, but humans and their ability to do things on the ground is so much more valuable.
And sometimes it’s gonna be a cost. Sometimes it’s gonna be a percentage of ticket sales. Sometimes it’s gonna be a friend. And that’s when you’ve built your network of contacts online before that. That’s when it comes into play. That’s when you go onto LinkedIn and Facebook saying, “Does anybody know somebody in Singapore who can do a talk or an event?”
Alison: I think too, and we get the question, kind of, more in a broader sense a lot of the time where people would say, like, they wanna build an audience and they wanna grow their market, even locally for them, never mind across the world. But they haven’t spent any time, like, investing in that community, investing in that market first.
Like, I would start by reading every blog, every site that’s coming and I’ll say, I’ll get to know people online who are there. So, what are their needs? Business sites based out of Singapore. I’m sure there’s tons of ways that you could find out that information online.
And invest some of your time and some of your currency and some of your skills in helping those people sharing their content, like, reading their information, getting to know about their products, because a lot of the time, we want people to pay attention to us.
Like, we wanna go to Singapore and be…you know, we wanna have a community online, but we don’t actually, like, go out and seek people and help them and join in on. Because especially in this case, you’re really joining their community or their communities.
And so, you know, we get comments all the time, like, “Nobody is sharing my stuff. How do I get people to share my stuff?” And it’s like, “Well, how many other people’s content did you actually read and share today?” “Like, what are you talking about? Like, I didn’t share anybody’s content. Like, why would I do that?” Like, you can’t expect people to care about you if you’re not gonna go out and find out about them and help them, yeah.
Scott: And sometimes, the grass is greener, kind of, paradox which is like, well, we should do… And I’m not saying this, Joy, that this is about your event, but just in general, like, we should do an event in London or Singapore and sit over there. Well, it’s the same. You know how hard it is to run an event? Obviously, you guys know how hard it is to run an event [inaudible 00:18:58].
Jamie: I’m like, “Don’t get any ideas, guys.”
Scott: Imagine doing what you’re doing…
Alison: And in Singapore.
Scott: ...running an event in Nashville and saying, “Let’s do it in Singapore.” You’d be like, “Yeah, that would be easier.” Not at all. And it’s really, really hard except you lose the luxury of being there. And it’s gonna be, you know, like you say…
Alison: Yeah, it forms some partnerships though, [crosstalk 00:19:20] at the beginning.
Scott: It will cost you twice as much, it will take you twice as long, and you only get half the money you expect.
Jamie: Yeah. No. I mean, I would say that’s really true. We, you know, have a staff in Portland and we’re actually hosting a meet-up there tonight, and, you know, it’s just an interesting thing trying to plan that, not being in that market. In Nashville and Portland, I’m sure this won’t be news to anyone, are very different culturally. They just have different draws, like, when would have the event, what you would serve at the event, like, all of those things are different. So, that’s amazing advice and it helps, again, to have people working out at that office, that [inaudible 00:19:56].
Scott: And just so everybody knows, please join us at Marketing United Singapore coming up in 2018. We’ll see you there.
Alison: Oh, jeez.
Jamie: No, no, it’s really fun and I’m up for the challenge. Okay. I like this one. This one is from Kim. Oh, actually, Dean wrote in, Dean’s throwing a little shade at old Domino’s. To be clear, Domino’s is a fantastic organization. And he just said Domino’s didn’t make better pizza. Just a different flavor of bad and a winky face.
Alison: Well, even bad pizza is pretty good.
Scott: Children, send Dean a pizza.
Jamie: Oh, that’s right. You guys. I see.
Scott: Again, it’s called the callback.
Jamie: That’s interesting that you’ve used a pizza example. I see what’s up.
Scott: Maybe we know more about Dean than he realizes.
Jamie: Dean walks in from behind accidentally… Okay. All right. So, Kim, we’re gonna move on to Kim. I like this question because it’s something that a lot of people deal with. “How do you manage the executive team pulling, sort of, the extra line items in your budget that help with customer retention, etc. when they still keep the same goal expectation in place? It’s the age-old problem of, you know, I’m gonna say, the man stopping, spending on the long-term strategies but not changing the long-term goals.”
So, you guys, you work for yourselves, but I’m sure you guys often…you probably work for yourselves because you didn’t wanna deal with these sort of things. We don’t…
Scott: Now, we work for ourselves, I can speak for myself that I’m a terrible employee and I’m an entrepreneur by the way. Entrepreneur is Latin for terrible employee [inaudible 00:21:49]. But you can talk to my boss about it and still…
Alison: And I feel strongly that I work for the children. So, my boss is about 10 and she often is…we often have conflicting views on what our long-term goals should be and how we could meet them. So, yeah, but a lot of people do and we’ve written about this before.
Scott: But you get the problem is that it’s almost like having this…you know what, this is why I left. So, my answer is when this happens you leave. Like, that’s my problem is because I’m just like, “I’m out of here. I can’t deal with this.” But it’s not the case, is that sometimes that it’s having that discussion.
And I remember actually, it was actually Jay Baer that said it when we had him on podcast at Marketing United two years ago, coming up next month by the way in Nashville, is that he’s like, “When you take something away, you’re gonna look at it and say, “Okay. So, which goal should we remove from this list?”
And sometimes that works for perspective. Sometimes they tell you to shut up and don’t be insubordinate and you can’t do it. But I just think when that happens more than ever, you’ve got to allow that talent of focus to take over that. Sometimes there is some bloat in the budget to explore, to try to do things because we have this amazing fascination in digital marketing that we have to be everywhere. And sometimes, you wanna tighten that belt a bit just on the focus because it’s more effective versus this scattering move of marketing.
There’s no easy or good technique to do though when people come and say, “You either have less money or less time because you have more responsibilities, and we want the same results or more.” There’s no good strategy on having an honest, candid conversation with your boss. And sometimes you can even just leave.
Alison: I think sometimes you can break down the expectations as well. Like, sometimes, we want things because we think we’re supposed to want them, like, a whole bunch of likes on something, in social particularly. But if those things don’t actually mean anything and don’t actually lead to more customers and more sales, then maybe they do need to be reevaluated.
And so, if your boss is saying, “I’ve been told, like, we need to have this many likes on our Facebook page.” Maybe it’s also education in just saying, like, not in a facetious way, “But this is what the likes mean. Do we really need them? This is why.” And pick something that’s actually movable, and then show how you can move it in a positive way, as opposed to something very, kind of, like…I think it’s often a communicate issue as well with how they understand what they’re supposed to reach, right?
Scott: Yeah. I just think you can slash most of the budget and just bring on a keynote speaker for an event, and then ride that for the year. No vested interest in that at all, by the way.
Jamie: I mean, you know, if you guys, Kim, if you’re having a conference in Singapore and you need somebody, I’m just saying.
Scott: I’ll be there for next year for Marketing United. So, if you wanna piggyback on the travel, we’re good.
Jamie: You can come and check it out.
Alison: I’m working to supplying the pizza.
Scott: Yeah, I’d be happy. Yeah.
Jamie: Honestly, Marketing United Singapore rules, sounds like rules. I’m there. Great answer. Let’s see here. So, oh, Jory’s got a great question. This is just taken it and it’s back into the social realm. I always like any speaker’s take on this. “What do you think will be the next big social media trend? What’s the thing? What are we seeing? What’s happening? What’s not happening?”
Alison: I hope people will be able to see this video because Scott is making… So, if you watch that when it’s available, I think people will be able to. So, the face Scott is making now, I like to call his, what’s coming next in social media face, and I will describe it for those of you listening. There is a raised eyebrow. There is a slight twitch in the eyebrow that is not raised. You notice the age lines are very accentuated. And there’s, kind of, a pucker situation happening in the mouth. This is what happens to this man when you ask him what’s coming next in social media.
Scott: We are terrible at now. We are terrible at 2003 still, and I think predictions are a bunch of crud ideas.
Jamie: Well, thank you.
Scott: Because we don’t know and everybody in marketing is like, “I’m gonna sound smarter today. Let’s go with ARBR and we’re gonna do this.” First, we don’t know because your website still doesn’t render properly on a fricking phone. And now we’re talking about, are we gonna have a virtual reality experience with our customers? And I just don’t think there are any virtual reality, augmented reality, and any kind of penetration of that, if it happens is still five to eight years away.
On a whole…there’s just, like, nine different reasons for that. I know what the opposite of the question… Like, what’s not gonna happen is… Those things like when we have them back here, we got the goggles and the gear and everything else we got… We bought them all so you don’t have to.
Alison: He buys them because he wants them, and then he says that sentence so I won’t stop the shipment.
Scott: We call it a write-up. So, we’ve got the Mevo live stream camera. We have the 360 Theta camera. We have all these things to show, and we’ve tried them. We tried them on the show and everything else. It’s just brand new, shiny, and crappy. That’s the problem. Live streaming videos directly on Facebook. Yeah, but it’s great on the EdgeRank algorithm. Yeah, and it’s terrible content for the most part.
Like, what are you doing…like, that’s my problem with things like these things. I know the question is about social, but live video is on Facebook and stuff. Like, when was the last time you saw a video from a brand and said, “You know what, I would like this to be less good and live”? I would like this to be less scripted and live. And 85% of the world is unfilmable to me. Unfilmable partially because of their face, and most people because of their attitude. People don’t wanna be on film. We are an exception to the rule.
Alison: We have the cameras set up all the time.
Scott: Yeah, every day. We didn’t even know we were doing the webinar today. In front of our morning coffee, we’re like, “Why is Jamie here? What’s going on?” So, the problem is like we take the thing that people don’t wanna do the most to the content that is the hardest to consume by the way, which is video. It’s the hardest to consume on the fly because we don’t always have sound. It takes a bandwidth of it streaming, and you have to have all of your focus and attention on it. And then people aren’t good at it.
They’re intimidated by it, and then make it live. And then have flying hearts and thumbs, and somebody says [inaudible 00:28:47] in the comment. She was like, “I can’t do this anymore.” And that’s our strategy because it’s new, I don’t see that being the strategy.
You know, I love virtual reality when it comes to an open house tour… I love it, but I’m a geek. Can you picture the majority of humans slapping on goggles to take a house tour by themselves? Have you met people? Have you met general humans on this earth that you’re gonna send them a piece of branded Google Cardboard and they’re gonna be able to put it together. I still have Lego I can’t put together, and it has instructions.
Alison: Look what you did to him with that question. He’ll be back. He’s coming back.
Jamie: He’s just checking out on the pizza.
Alison: Where are you going? Are you getting a book?
Scott: Where’s the goggles?
Alison: I don’t know. I cleaned the bookshelf today. Sorry. I think [inaudible 00:29:44] obvious passion about the issue. I think the real danger with anything like that is if you’re focusing on what’s coming next, which you should be. We’re not saying you shouldn’t be paying attention to what’s happening. But if you’re putting too much of your focus on it, the things you’re doing currently are gonna suffer. And we talk about it a lot, about email.
We talked about it when we were with you guys, at Marketing United, was that, you know, this is dead, and Twitter is dead, and email is dead, and everything. None of this stuff is dead. And you spent all these years building it up and using, you know, to have this audience. And no wonder you’re losing people paying attention to you because you’re always jumping to the next way they’re gonna talk. They’re sitting there waiting to be talked to and asked to be talked to. And it’s just a waste of time.
Scott: And this insatiable content appetite of the brands and the pressure. I was reading something yesterday about a team that was formed, one of the first magazine properties. They’re gonna go, “Okay. We’re gonna have a new Snapchat channel like magazine, like a Cosmo and all that stuff.” So, they had, like, 22 people. They had real journalists and artists doing illustrations and designers, and they had created this content. They spent a week on each piece, and it’d be gone in 24 hours. It’d be gone in 24 hours and they’d have nothing. They’d would have no resonation. No lifespan. We’re creating content now that dies. And then we have to do it again the next week. And I’m just like, that is an unending, unwinnable race to the bottom when it comes to those things.
I wanna create good things that resonate with my target market that can live on for a while, even if we create stuff on Facebook today and really in all cases, in 72 hours, it’s practically invisible. It’s gone. It’s disappeared. And so, I’m focusing on the core stuff. What is it? Are we making good products?
Do we have good service? Can we highlight those stories and our content, and where can my content reside where it lives with us as well? Because we just have it all over everywhere, and we have all these vanity metrics that have vanished, and we have nothing to show for it. And that’s scary. That’s a thing that is…it’s exhausting.
To make great content is a lot of work. And I just don’t think 24 hours does this stuff justice, but we’re racing for those places. We’re racing for Instagram just came out with stories. Let’s put stuff on there. Why? Let’s put stuff on Snapchat. And why would you go there? Well, because the young people are. They’re there because you aren’t, right?
They’re there because you’re not having a presence and they can talk to each other. And [inaudible 00:32:11] happen in the next five years, the world will still be on Facebook. The world may or may not still be on Twitter, but the point is people will talk to each other about the stuff they’re interested in talking about, and do you belong in that conversation or not, that’s the question they answer, not you.
Alison: So, the answer to the question, is what’s next in social media is a frustrated 40-year-old man.
Alison: That’s what’s coming.
Jamie: So, to that same point, and this is a great next question. So, Dawn said, “Our organization has a group of high school students, what are some emerging trends, not necessarily in social, in reaching teenagers with relevant content where they are?” So, when your primary audience and people that you need to market to understandably don’t want to see you on Snapchat with the filter on your face, where do you go? How do you get to them?
Scott: I go for the influencers in that world. I go for the ones who are being listened to. They’re not gonna come to my Instagram account or Snapchat, but they’re gonna go to this person’s. And if I can talk to them and look at that and say, “Look, am I gonna take some of this part and this budget and say let’s do something cool and work on something, and don’t dictate it to the influencer.”
There’s dangers in that. There’s problems with that. We’ve seen what’s happened with, you know, CutiePie on YouTube and a couple of other influencers where they’re also…you know, the one of the reasons sometimes they’re popular is because they’re not political, right?
Jamie: They’re teenage boys.
Scott: Teenage boys and people that have giant followings that you could only dream of and never fathom of having, and that’s okay. They become the new media channel and you look at them and say, “Can we work with them?” And that’s building a relationship using somebody.
It’s not the same as 20 years ago and doing a commercial with Cindy Crawford and Pepsi for the Super Bowl and you dictate the script. You’re going the other way with this side of influencing and you’re looking at, you know, sponsoring something, them trying it out, and seeing if you can catch the wave. But the thing is you can’t buy cool. Right? You can’t buy relevance to an audience. So, sometimes it’s not the answer.
Alison: I would say too, you don’t understand cool or relevance. And then so, if you’re looking at it in a push way where you’re like, “I want teenagers to try my product,” it’s not gonna work. First of all, you need to have a relationship with teenagers or that age group whatever you’re after.
They need to want your product, why do they want your product, are they interested at all? Because you hand over something that wasn’t designed to them, and in a condescending way, they’re gonna rip it apart to people you couldn’t even dream could hear about you, like, in the most negative kind of way.
So I think there’s also a why question here. Like, if you’re targeting to teenagers but you have absolutely no idea how to sell to teenagers, it’s possible you’re not really targeting. Like, you don’t really know what they’re looking for.
Scott: Most adults don’t know what it is, except for us.
Alison: We don’t. But if your product speaks to teenagers and it’s a good product and it’s available to them at a price point and in stores and things that they can access, they’re gonna take that product and share it for you. And then I think that that idea of working with influencers in a respectful way, like, I think it’s often, kind of, a condescending way… You want what they have. You want this audience. So, respect it and reach out to influencers in a respectful way. Don’t try and sound like you’re a teenager, too. Talk openly and intelligently.
Scott: Yo, what’s happening? We got a bomb diggity product for ya.
Alison: Like, you can’t fake it. And I think with any community, more than any other community trying to sell to teenagers you can’t fake it.
Scott: Yeah, and you got to be careful, again, who you’re aligning with too, whether they’re, you know, intelligent or not. We’ve got some examples we use in the talk about things like, I won’t name them, but Scott Disick who promoted something on Instagram, like it was Bootea shake and he posted it with the Bootea shake. In the description, he wrote on his account was, “Hey, Scott. Post this at 4:00 p.m., Eastern Standard Time with this caption below.” That was his post.
Alison: He [inaudible 00:36:05] teenager, though. He’s our age.
Scott: But he was selling to teens. Like, he was selling to people who are younger. I’m happily confirmed I do not know the age of Scott Disick.
Alison: Sorry. I apologize. Yeah. Well, he drinks a lot of Bootea shakes. He might be 30 something, but he’s definitely an adult. He’s not a teenager.
Scott: It’s so much longer than I’m more to talk about Bootea shakes.
Alison: He has three children.
Scott: It’s [inaudible 00:36:22] talk about Bootea shakes. This was not in the webinar UnWebinar description, by the way.
Jamie: I’m sorry, guys. No, no. And that’s a great point. You know, I can’t relate to people on our staff that are, like, 23 much less like a 13-year-old. I have no idea what they’re talking about, what their memes are, any of that kind of stuff. So, I think that that’s…
Scott: And as soon as you try to, that’s where some of the biggest train wrecks of just ridiculous branding is when the brands try to use the memes and try to use the stuff because, like, [inaudible 00:36:57] you don’t have to. You’re okay. Don’t do it.
Jamie: Yeah. Or, I mean, however, I do think there are some brands like Totino’s that sells party pizzas. They clearly have employed someone who is probably, like, to do their social media that probably is, like…
Scott: Taco Bell as well. Taco Bell is great at it, too. But they have a team of people who are, like, I was talking to somebody. It’s like millennial with some kind of foreign [inaudible 00:37:23] that’s only in Singapore for an event and you don’t know them. And so, you look at them and say, “Okay…” I had somebody come up to, because I do one of the things I do is a millennial rant in the talk, right? So, somebody last year came up to us and said, because that’s the first time I did it, and they came up and said, “We sat around at a meeting last week and three of us are millennials at the table,” there was 10 of them there. And they’re like, “We’re gonna bring in a millennial consultant to tell us what millennials think.” They’re, like, “We’re sitting right here.”
Jamie: Just ask us.
Scott: Because the people on higher-up who make the editorial decisions aren’t usually millennial age, and the ones who could understand it better who are doing actual grunt work could actually do it better and have better ideas. So, how much you’d let the people, you know, in your workspace unless you’re targeting 12-year-olds, you might have some early 20-year-olds there that would understand, you know, this wouldn’t work, this would work.
Jamie: Okay. Here’s one. Okay. Here’s a good one. This one is about, sort of, on the flip side of that, or not on the flip side but rather an organization that needs to do fundraising. So, not even trying to buy something, but getting people to care about something serious.
So, Jaycee wants to know, “I receive many emails every month from…” oh, I’m sorry, “from several veteran organizations asking for donations. I work at a local veterans organization. I do not want to overwhelm perspective donors. How many emails should be sent a year? What is the ratio of total emails sent to donors and clients that I should ask for donations?”
I think this applies to anyone that’s, sort of, soliciting something that isn’t just a direct, kind of, sales approach, but what feels right when it comes to asking people to care about your organization.
Scott: This question was from Jay-Z?
Alison: Yeah, big fan, Jay-Z
Scott: Big fan.
Alison: Yeah, long-time listener and first-time caller.
Scott: So, Jaycee, there is no number. That’s the thing. There is no proper frequency, proper day, proper time, proper number, because there’s all different things behind the scenes when it comes to that. So, first off is, what is the list being conditioned to already? So, right now, we blog once every two years. So, if I sent it out…when I start sending out a blog literally, go check the blog. If I start sending out a post every week, “New blog post, new blog post.” You know, I’m just like, “I’m gonna go now.” Right?
Well, you don’t wanna be seen as being needy in that. I know you need donations and I know, and by the way, thank you for being part of organizations that are extremely needed in this world. But the point is, do we have something relevant to say? So, if you’re doing a campaign, everybody does a campaign at some time, we’re trying to hit a certain goal. Okay, good. You hit them out there. But what happens, is it Memorial Day? Then that’s the only time I think it’s appropriate ever to market on Memorial Day is because you are part of a veterans association. That makes sense to me to do that. Every other company should be quiet.
But there’s no amount of time. Probably, you don’t wanna pester them. And when you think it’s too much, that’s when it is. So, I know we get email all the time. If it’s a cause I believe in, but I’m just not ready at that time to donate, it’s okay. I’ll see it. I open it. I don’t. But I don’t get offended.
You know, when we get an email from UNICEF, or we get something from Red Cross or No Kid Hungry or something, or Charity: Water. I don’t look at it as charity if the Charity:Water email say, “Scott, stop it. Stop sending those emails, man.” It’s just, no, we just [inaudible 00:40:59] and then once in a while, you’re like, time to give.
And it’s okay, don’t be afraid to email them. But also, use part of your gut that’s telling you right now is don’t over email them. I don’t think every day. I don’t think every week. I think once a quarter or monthly is possible, but force frequency is never a good thing. You don’t send out an email in March because you’re supposed to.
Alison: No, but you also need to think about, like, sharing stories and giving people a reason and all of these kinds of things. And I think that if you, let’s say, you have some great story that comes up and it just happens, it’s related to whatever your charity is and it comes up in the news, or it’s something you heard personally, or maybe some of your donations got to a particular community that you wanna share the story back with your donors, don’t wait until Friday at 2:00 because someone told you that was a good time.
Like, write that story in the best way you can. Share a picture, share a video, whatever you have content-wise and send it out and then make the ask. And then the next time you have an amazing story to tell or something important to share, send a story and make the ask. And then I think you find that it’s more related to what you’re sharing with people than the frequency necessarily because people can control the frequency for themselves by what they open. You know, like in the end, it’s not how much you send. It’s what actually gets opened.
Scott: And you send it as often as you have something compelling to say [inaudible 00:42:25].
Jamie: I agree with that advice. I think it’s fantastic.
Scott: And for all your email marketing needs, use Emma. Go to myemma.com for…
Jamie: We work with tons of nonprofits.
Alison: They’d never send you an email that you didn’t want.
Jamie: Yeah, no. It’s things that…
Scott: You know who sends email too frequently? Emma. Go to myemma.com/unpodcast for tips and…sorry, it’s part of the habit.
Jamie: And you can manage your preferences. All right. So, we’re gonna take some more questions. I will say though I feel like it might be time to announce a winner. I don’t know. It’s just because it’s 10:45.
Alison: Do you feel like announcing a winner?
Scott: I actually don’t see a name in the text.
Jamie: If you, you know, were to scroll down into the bottom of this Google Documents, the winner that you selected, I know. So whenever, whenever you feel like it.
Scott: It’s a little bit [inaudible 00:43:24]. I got it in here.
Jamie: Alison. All right. We’re gonna take a question. We’re gonna take a question real quick. Okay.
Scott: I got it, I got it, I got it.
Jamie: Imagine that.
Scott: All right. I forgot. I actually have to refresh the document. I got it now. Travis [inaudible 00:43:46] from Iowa State University. Go Iowa sports team. The Iowa…
Jamie: From the heartland.
Scott: The Iowa somethings. Go get them.
Jamie: Hey, Travis, you…
Scott: If he accepts it.
Alison: He can change his mind now, I know.
Scott: Because now he’s like, “There’s no way I’m hanging out with those people in that.”
Alison: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:44:12] ready to go.
Jamie: There are plenty of other speakers. Just kidding. Nashville is great. It’s awesome.
Alison: He got there, like, what? He’s so busy with all of these people. He’s taking, like, all of our people for dinner, and for barbecue.
Scott: Yeah. There is no offered barbecue with Jay Baer.
Jamie: [inaudible 00:44:30] Clint maybe we could bring.
Scott: Yeah, Clint maybe. They’re all going out. We’re, like, we’re told the wrong restaurant.
Alison: Yeah, sorry, we’re sending our winners.
Scott: Everybody is [inaudible 00:44:36] were like, “Where is the [inaudible 00:44:39]? I don’t understand.” You know, there’s a lot of great speakers at the Marketing United and then us. So, yeah.
Jamie: Travis accepts, “On behalf of the Iowa State Cyclones, I accept.”
Scott: Cyclones. You need to bring us some swag. We’ll swag swap.
Alison: What are you talking about? He won the contest. He doesn’t bring us swag.
Scott: But we need mugs. We have five children. We need mugs.
Alison: No, we don’t need anything.
Scott: We need clothing.
Alison: Sorry, Travis.
Jamie: Onesies, whatever you’ve got.
Scott: For only one Cyclone swag piece a day, you can clothe our children through the bitter cold Canadian winter. Travis, help us. Cyclone is a killer.
Alison: You’re gonna start sending Travis ask emails every day. How much is too much asking? Let’s ask them about that.
Scott: I heard it all on UnWebinar, Travis. I could ask you something once a day.
Jamie: Yeah. On these UnWebinar’s, this is a safe space. So, Travis, you just raise your hand. Type into the GoToWebinar chat modal. If you feel uncomfortable, we will get you…but anyway, congrats, Travis. And we have time for, I know, [inaudible 00:45:46], Cyclone? Okay.
Scott: I wanna make sure that we talked quickly about, a bunch of people are asking about the stats for the viral video we did on Facebook, right?
Jamie: Yes. Yes, yes.
Scott: I wanna make sure we cover it because I told people we need to cover it, and if we don’t, they’re gonna tweet.
Jamie: Absolutely. And we did, and honestly, we’ve got so many questions that I’m losing track of it, but we did get a question about, Marshall actually asked, “Have you discovered what you believe to be a formula to create a viral video which allows you to talk about this awesome stuff?”
Scott: Yeah. It’s like KFC, I can’t give you the recipe. But I will tell you, one, there is no formula because first and foremost, the base, the core has got to be the content that’s compelling. So, that part, there’s no formula, right? It’s very subjective. It’s very depending on relevance and contextual content for people…
Jamie: And luck.
Scott: And luck, huge, and luck. So, here’s the explanation. So, for those of you that are on here right now that aren’t part of our world on our UnMarketing Facebook page, we had a clip of me doing part of my millennials rant. And the core of it was me saying what fellow old people like me mean when we say millennials, people younger than us and we don’t like you. And that’s the clip, right?
And then I start freaking out about making mix tapes. It’s like two and a half minutes. And it’s really funny. So, I posted it on the UnMarketing Facebook page and the original clip that I got closed captions so the, you know, text came up that were 250,000 views, which is great. Our page had 45,000 people on it. So, it’s a great number. It resonated. It went. And I said, “No, I still think it’s better. I think it should get more traction to it.”
So, we had our video friends at Atomic Spark take it and put the letter boxing, the black bars across top and bottom and put a title. So, we really repurposed the strategy from places like 9GAG and everything else. And I’m less of a human because I copied those places and sites. But we put it and in it, it says what old people mean when we say millennials, and that’s across the whole time.
You have to stop the scroll, right? You have to stop people seeing to catch their eye. And that went from a quarter million views to 14.6 million views, same exact clip, by the way, shared twice. So, sharing it twice, by the way, exhausted some of my first circle, some of our original people because they already saw it. And it still went, and it went bananas. And the only change was the letter boxing.
Now, the behind the scenes of the actual data though is it had a 35 million person reach which means nothing, okay? It had 14.5 million views, which also mean nothing. Because on Facebook, a view is counted when it’s done after three seconds, which is…
Jamie: So, just scrolling through?
Scott: It just needs a serve. It doesn’t mean I see it, by the way. It’s served into the newsfeed and it comes up and past three seconds. YouTube video is 30 seconds. Plus, if I’m watching a video on YouTube, I don’t usually fall into that by accident. I’m usually looking for it. So, the actual numbers that mean something is to 4 million and 2.8 million. Those are the numbers that means something beginning to me. Four million is the number of views that went over 10 seconds. And 2.8 million views is the number of views over 10 seconds with the sound on, okay? I don’t know who was watching it for over 10 seconds with the sound off.
Alison: But you’re doing it by accident.
Scott: Yeah, by accident, exactly. And really the number that means something to me business-wise, because my business is keynoting, is the 11,000 views that the full keynote got because they clicked on that link in the post. Now, if you look at that, 35 million person reach, 11,000 views. That’s the real number down at the bottom here.
So, to get proper metrics, you have to dig deeper. Thirty-five million sounds great. Man, my head, which is by the way, giant just physically on a circumference level was giant after that even more so. But the numbers that mean something is I got to 11,000 views on my full keynote. That’s cool.
Now, the clip that’s being seen was awesome. Kids thought it was cool. It went viral. I was at an event and people walked up to me and said, “Oh, you’re the guy from that Facebook video.” But my problem is, people think it’s a comedy set. And we got email saying, “Can you come do your comedy at our event?” I’m like, “Anyone here from out of town.” Like, it’s not what…
Alison: It was an interesting exercise, kind of, in targeting too, because of the whole keynote, that particular clip that was chosen, it doesn’t really talk about business at all. And so, it’s really just like a very generic. Anyone can think of as funny either young people, old people, whatever. But it doesn’t really talk about millennials in the context with which Scott talks about millennials.
So, we looked at that and said, “This is very broad. It can reach anyone,” which is great when it comes to how many views you get. But it’s not necessarily what you want for your business. Like, you want your would-be customers to watch your videos, which is very targeted. And if Scott had talked about business and stuff, it would never have reached that kind of audience. Well, yeah, it would’ve. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean that. It would always reach as many people as possible. But, you know, you have to think about that when you’re creating your content, too.
Scott: Yeah. It’s just a world of vanity metrics. And at the end of the day, for us, the thing is, to get an ROI from that video to give it to marketing terms, it costs nothing. So, we have no investment. All the views were organic. Nothing was sponsored or paid for. So, to get a return on investment, I have to get zero bookings from it. There’s literally no cost.
We took the clip, edit it, put it up, and it was done. And, you know, the problem is our sales cycle for booking, you know, it can be a year to two years. So, to even know if it worked because we don’t usually find out. So, we’re not sure if it lands gigs, if it will land gigs. But at the end of the day, it made some people laugh, and that was cool. We also made some people very angry.
Jamie: I was delighted.
Scott: If we could read the comments, you know, I still remember your comment on there. In a sea of terrible comments, you are a bright light.
Jamie: I always thought that.
Scott: The problem is, when you go viral on the internet, you know, and people come out. And apparently, my beard sucks. My man bun is stupid and my tattoo is just ridiculous. So, the main comment is, “Oh, the guy with the man bun is talking about hey, millennials, whoa.” And I’m like, it’s a joke.
Jamie: And we’re circling back on haters here. That’s when you know you’re doing something right.
Alison: We were talking about haters.
Scott: I got the socks.
Jamie: Hey, it’s true. And Travis, you’re gonna get some socks as well. All right. I think we have time for one more. What say you, guys?
Alison: Yeah, sure.
Jamie: All right. I like this one. So, we’re talking about content, the quality of content, Terry Simpson, “Is it terrible that I just want my newsletter to help patients eat better? Should I be pitching something? I prefer just giving them good, helpful information.”
Alison: Oh, Terry, you sound broken-hearted.
Scott: Terry also a long-time loyal fan. Hi, Terry.
Jamie: Ah, perfect.
Alison: No, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Scott: That’s the thing. There’s so much pressure. This is the problem. So, when you see “Like the Facebook video,” and you see it’s got a million views, like, well, that’s the golden wrong. That’s [inaudible 00:53:15] and it’s not. If you have 80 people on your newsletter and 30 of them opened it, and it helps them, it helps them eat better and do better, that’s a good day. That’s a good thing.
The only metrics that matter are yours. I rather you compare them. We barely ever pitch anything for sale when we send our list. I rather you just do a cross comparison of your own newsletter and say, I think we can improve things. I’d rather you will get more people to open the newsletter to get those tips because maybe your subject line isn’t as good. I’d rather you go in and log into your Emma account and split test either the subject line or now, you can split test the content inside the newsletter.
Jamie: All of it. It’s true.
Scott: But honestly, the only metrics that matter are yours. Right? The only metrics that matter is saying, “Look, when we did this two newsletters ago and we had a 30% open rate. And now this week, we have a 12% open rate, what happened?” And let’s look at it. And, like, I think that you never have to sell.
I think selling is by giving great information. That’s what UnMarketing was founded on, that is giving great content and helping your audience because it positions yourself as an expert and you give a damn, and there’s nothing ever wrong with that.
Alison: And just in, like, a broader sense, I think your success is always what you decide your success is. You can’t look at what might be seen as success to somebody else and be, like, well, I must not be successful because I haven’t done this or that. If your goal was to help people and you’re helping people, then you’re successful at what you’re doing no matter how far it goes. So, I mean, don’t let other people [inaudible 00:54:53] that you need some number or something or to be doing this side or that side or a video like this or that to be successful, it’s up to you.
Scott: Like, just because I got 14 million views of a video.
Alison: Don’t listen to him.
Scott: No, but no, then I go to Starbucks.
Alison: He’s still not happy.
Scott: I’ll go to Starbucks and I’m like, “Can I get a flat white?” “That will be 5.20.” I’ll be like, “I got 14 million views on Facebook.” And like, “Great, that will be $5.20.” And the thing is, I’m still not happy, 14.6 million views, I’m like, “It should’ve got 20.” But that’s how my brain works.
Alison: And I’m like, the minute you make the video you’re proud of, the minute you write the book you love, the minute you create whatever the product that you are proud of, you’re successful. And then you send it into the world and then you keep doing what you’re doing. So, that’s why both of us aren’t crazy and successful.
Scott: Yeah. It plays off each other. And that’s why we don’t mind that we only have six listeners on the “UnPodcast” because we put out a good show, and just because six of them, two of which are sitting here and three [crosstalk 00:55:58].
Alison: We don’t.
Scott: No, we don’t. But Alison said that with the book. I especially remember “UnSelling,” like, when “UnSelling” came out and I’m hounding book sales stats, and I’m looking at BookScan and I’m looking and I’m just like, and I obsess over the podcast downloads and I look at them, and she’s like, “You got to stop. We wrote a great book. We recorded a great show. You got to let it go out there. You got to let that happen.” Because if outside metrics are you’re deeming to be worthy, you’re always gonna not reach it.
Alison: And that’s where you’re putting your energy. So, instead of writing the next great book or working so that the next great podcast can come out, you’re focusing on how other…you can’t control how other people are gonna react to it once it’s out, only before. So, I would just say if you’re helping people, that sounds pretty successful to me.
Jamie: And they’re gonna come to you when they need help. Okay. All right. Well, we’re out of time. I’m bummed. This is always one of my favorite hours of my, the last three years, which is awesome. Congrats. I’m pulling up Travis from Iowa State University. Yeah. We’re really excited. I can’t wait to see you guys in April and…
Scott: The Iowa State Psychos.
Scott: Cyclones. Cyclones.
Jamie: Like twisters. Thank you all so much for being here. And, yeah, we’re gonna send you the recording and maybe we’ll even send you a little special something to hopefully get you to Marketing United as well.
Scott: Every question you read out today, Jamie, if we notch it down, we’ll send all them a pair of socks to everyone.
Jamie: Perfect. So, congrats. You’re welcome. No, yeah. Awesome. Well, bye, guys. Thank you so much.
Alison: Bye. Thank you, guys.
Scott: All right. Thanks, everybody. Take care. See you in Nashville.